terms of the budget, and no one knows that better than each of you. you are in a very tough time. it forces government to look at all of its expenses and decide which is the most important. if it was possible, of love all the educational activities to be done incrementally, for new initiatives. the -- to be done with new money. but that does not look like it is realistic. we have to work hard with the money invested or given that the outcome and see how we maintain this. when we look at this budget figures, it understates the magnitude of the problem. health costs continue to rise, and a lot of cost at other levels, pell grants, title money, there is a concern about what's money will be there.

the ability impact on research institutions, on k-12 funding, the number people in higher education, if you ask what happened at federal levels at some of these numbers, if you can get quite concerned. also, the history of education is that over the last 20 years, spending has gone up, it has doubled the per pupil expenditure. all it takes the constant benchmark in any ap numbers, which show the store -- the same story as sat scores, or international competitions, they have been largely flat. it is a big investment and yet the outcomes have not changed that much. what we are being asked to do for equity, for competitiveness

is to literally flipped these curves. take the performance curve and make a lot like the expenditure curve over the last 30 years, and taking the spending curbs and making it to flat. it is a huge challenge but i will give you some reasons why i think it is not impossible that that would be achievable. the best news here is that if we take the very best teachers and the very best institutions, at either k-12 or high school level, we get fantastic results. i am not talking about teachers paid out of the ordinary or school systems that spend per pupil money that is out of the ordinary. there are schools that take kids from the inner cities and actually spend less than the average and get over 90% of those kids going on to a

quarter-year college. there are teachers of four-year college. their teachers they get to years of educational improvement simply by being in the classroom for a year. if we simply take the average performance of the teacher in the institutions and bring them not even up halfway to what the very best are doing, we could be the best in the world. we could take the performance curve and make it look like that expenditure curve. the fact that this does not imply are inventing whole new teaching techniques, not even in find -- inventing a new type of institution. it simply requires spreading best practices in a strong way. that could give us a huge difference here. the investments we have made had

given us a lot -- the start talks about the k-12 system, and starting in 1960, for every 1000 students, you had 40 instructors. that is a very broad term, teachers or anything that has to do within destruction -- with instruction. they were teaching typically over eight hours. now that number is down quite a bit, something like five hours, but we have added other instructors. by 1980 was up to 58 per thousand. today it is up to 85. we have 40 people who are non- instructional staff. if you take all the adults in the system, you have an eight- one ratio instead of what you had in the park pass, pretty in

the far past, and eight-one ratio. very different. there are some opportunities to use the people that we have died in a better way. the key element of that is measuring their effectiveness. that is not a trivial thing to do but it is an absolutely critical thing to do. if we think of in the area of endeavor in the world, we think of sports records, we think of engineering capabilities. you would say today that professionals are better than the professionals of 50 years ago. that is a lot that has been learned and people do things in a much better way. education is an exception to that. if someone said the best math teachers taught 50 years ago, it would be hard to contradict because there has not been a

large body of knowledge transferred which has been carried along in transferred and measured in a way that means that teaching constantly gets better. and yet i believe that is very possible. would have about measuring effective teaching and there are many different ways to do that. test scores will be one element of that. in some subjects, reading, mathematics, those things really do tell a great story about are the kids learning to multiplied and applied and the basics they need to know. y and divide and all the basics they need to know. you find out what you are good at and what you need to get better. one way we have been pioneering

is taking a camera, putting it in the classroom, and with the magic of digital technology, it is very inexpensive. it captures not only the teacher but the students. you can see exactly when the students stopped paying attention, when did they start talking to each other, and get a sense of, ok, why isn't it done differently there? she is reviewing her own video. when you find a teacher looking at their own video, it's fascinating to hear what they said. i should've given better examples here. i should've called on those kids at the back. they are losing their interest and what i would change. really great teachers understand that it is a real time performance. they have to constantly see what is going on. this tool helps them to understand that. as a look at the analysis of these techniques, whether, in the class and down, or calling

on student doing well on the student, working with students somewhat behind, we get very good diagnostic information that can help teachers feel a lot better. what we are seeing is that the grade classroom practice amounts to what you expect in terms of the other measure. the peer evaluation of teachers, the technical improvement of cheap -- of teachers. we also go to the students and ask them questions. the two questions that appear to be very dynastic, asking the student, does the teacher used the time in the classroom well, and secondly, when you're confused about the subject, does the teacher help you understand it? the answers to those simple questions correlates very strongly to teacher excellence. part of the beauty of videos or

student interviews is that they can be used not only on monday nights to bases, but across more subject areas, -- on the diagnostic basis, but across subject areas and test measures, so people feel the system is very balanced and it is not likely to be capricious, and if they are designed right, done with fairly low overhead. we have different tests and partnerships with different levels of intensity. they're trying out the systems. to go from a system that has been very seniority-driven, which unfortunately i do not correlate with the effectiveness while it all, to go to a new system. but if that's system was great for student outcome, then every

show -- everyone should be enthused about it. the willingness to try it out and get it right, that requires a leap of faith. we and many others are involved in that. it could be the most catalytic. if you look get compensation, it is broken down into these categories. in any other budget time coming he would probably want to later on some additional incentives for the teachers who are very effective and for the teachers to help other teachers become better. over time, teachers should be classified into two different levels.

so the better teachers are getting rewarded not only for how they do but how they help others. there's almost no system in the united states where you say, i'll take a little bit larger class, i will teach closer to more than the five hours a day, i'll teach six or seven hours a day, and get involved in things to help other teachers. workloads and results are not a meaningful component. in the question is, how do you get there? for new teachers as this is being figured out, the ideal is not making long-term promises in terms of things like the longevity with a master's degree portion. you have that flexibility in the system that some of that resource would be available for these systems. another thing i'm optimistic about his the common core state

standards initiatives. we played a role in bringing stays together, 44 are signed up for this, and some states are in an aggressive complementation mode. the common core is an amazing piece of work. i have met with the people doing this work, the work in mathematics is very strong, and it is simple enough that a student can take assessment test and see for themselves where am i, what am i good that, what should i go back and try to do better on? it lets them look and understand where they are, which is very important. the common court actually reduces the size of the textbook. one difference between the united states and many other countries is that we read teach the same concepts many times

instead of teaching a few concepts very well. we teach in a redundant way. and the common core brings that to a more focused approach. this is a really great thing. one of the benefits is going to be that for the states that adopted in this, but the teacher training and the online materials will be charitable on -- sheryl ball on the national basis,. people will be all the look and see and compete, far better than when there were different standards. you could take something that worked well in a different state and move across. i mentioned we had schools that do extremely well. charter schools got started in the late 1990's. at first a lot of them were one offs.

some of them succeeded very well, and some of them did not. many take on the tough students and they are not above average. but there is a number, including some you'll get a chance to visit, different schools, over a dozen of these they do pretty amazing jobs. and they focus on kids in the inner city. they sometimes are able to get access to buildings. that is a big difference for you have this three straight levels where some fallout nine and some allow caps. but even when you're not up against the cap, sometimes the access for the building order reimbursement level is holding back the schools. they try out new things. for example, we talk about the role of technology in the

classroom. you take your class and have half of them, seeing where they are on their math, and had the other half of doing group learning. there are a number of charter schools that have started with exactly that idea in mind. without breaking the budget, they can bring them as a school day. they can intensify the way that they teach math. it is really based on technology. technology is just the beginning. i want to say that all the answers are in on how it can be used. it is the charter school structure being a part of allowing that to thrive and to be figured out. at a higher education level, the difference we see in results between different institutions is quite substantial. i was very amazed when the foundation was first getting into higher education that even basic questions about graduation

rates were hard to answer, to say, which school graduates more people, which the the people go on and get degrees? the private or profit part, people are taking a hard look at that and saying, is the investment of money appropriated? are they doing the right thing? but those same types of questions about outcomes and effectiveness really should be asked of the whole higher education spectrum. there are some exemplars here as well that are phenomenal in their own way as charter schools are in the k-12 arena. i have been a good one in tennessee, tenn. technology center, where all the elements have come together. they were training people for the jobs that existed. they were doing it with supporting the students very well, and on a very modest

budget. i am sure that every state has some of these gems that are doing a great job. they deserve to be funded more. on the other side, it is a tough thing to say, the ones that are not with high graduation rates, are they fully informed about the product that they are investing their life into posture mark -- into? i am not saying that will be a problem but if we can get things measured, as is the data will be there for people to be able to decide that. the biggest investment the foundation makes is in the affected teaching, the personnel system, how the measurement can be done. analyzing the videos of over

13,000 classrooms. thesecond biggest thing is technology peace. in the student can assess where they are on math. they do not have to graduate high school -- when the into the higher education institution, and they are below the curve and they're putting them of -- remedial math. as soon as you were there, it is a humiliating thing. those things tend to disproportionately never get any type of degree. there are over 9 billion a year spent on students who never get through the system. it is a very nevin -- negative experience for the student and for the investing that as i get paid out there. people talk about personalize learning for a long time. we finally have the ability to do that, where you can access

knowledge, find the best lectors, finds ways to explain that that appeals to them. some really great things that happened with technology. in the sense is this replacing teachers, particularly those in the lower grades -- in no sense is this replacing teachers, for tickling -- particularly those in the lower rate. the study's section piece is the only piece that has to be done face to face. that kind of splitting of the educational experience can be done. there are some very exciting were taking that idea and showing receipts showing the efficiency they can come out of that. some people are better lecture, some people are better its student groups, some are better

counseling others. technology can be used in a lot of ways. it can be used to help gather data, like serving students, and expensive to do. figuring out which students are at risk of dropping out, and in the for-profit sector, which despite some of its challenges, it does have some best practices that we are looking at. when a student does not show up within five minutes, they are being called on their cellphones to find out where are you and what is going on. a counselor is brought in who is as bread talking to them about why are they having difficulties -- who is expert in talking to them about why they are having difficulty. technology is definitely on our side, although it is not a panacea. this initiative is a great thing that in some ways is very basic have the statistics, which of

those students, when a higher education expecting to get a degree, and which ones did not, and then go in and do some analysis. understand what that is about. as a very bad budget or institution? -- does it very by budget or institution? until we have standard methods for this and we can break it down by income level, the different things that you like to see, it is hard to have a dialogue and to identify the examplars. complete to compete is a great step in that direction. because we are in an era of tradeoffs, there are a lot of ideas about what should be done. i will quickly mention some of those. some measures are more controversial than others. is to bet that education is not something -- it is too bad that

education is not something that , we will not be making increases in. more and more of that would be spent on pensions and medical and less of less of that on education research and infrastructure. and if you compare and oversimplify and collett spending on the older versus the younger, that would shift dramatically. in many of the countries we compete with, they are abnormally focused on those elements that our investment in the young and not particularly -- particularly on the medical side, the numbers in trends are very much for a future growth. we are unique both at the state and federal level on that. hereunder the do category, the

top priority is getting these measurement of teacher effectiveness. that alone, if it was done well, would make up the best in the world. there are others to do some of it. we are not the most aggressive on that. but we have other factors in our favor. if we can find in did this well, it would be a big. the class size limit, unfortunate that that has to come up, but it is important to note that if you had a choice, of having more effective teachers teaching a larger class, by which i mean a class size that goes from 20 to 26, a dramatic change, that is a 30% increase. if you gave a third of that to the teacher for taking on a tougher challenge, and you make sure that the people you are

retaining to teach the somewhat larger class is were the more effective teachers, you that the budget savings, if you would have the teacher making more money, and you have a better student outcome. although class sizes, as they get above 30, that is clearly detrimental, but within the range that people have been investing, if you look at all the different trade-offs, that is one that may not be appropriate but if you look at all the different things going on. in the college area, everyone should have the sense of which of the college's, both community and employer institutions, are doing well, and break that down by department. the amount of subsidization is not the well correlated to the areas that create jobs and

income for the state. in the past, it felt fine to say that we overall will be generous to this sector. but to break down and say the categories that help build jobs and the economy in that state in the future, it is not across the board in the way that the state subsidizes and higher education. and then finally about technology, i think there is a lot of experimentation that to go on, even in tough budget times. foundations like ourselves can help on this, but the state will have to keep involved and have people trying out ways of using technology. it is not ready for prime time in the sense that you can make a dramatic cut, and despite putting technology in immediately, being able to retain the same output. category, one state

reduce the length of the school year. in addis states has one of this shortest school years already. -- the united states has one of the shortest school years already. that would be a regression. we have one of the shortest school days in the world. that is work role related, but it is very different. under committed dollars in longevity pay, if there is a way to maintain flexibility so that as the effective ones come along, funding teachers to be in different categories and you have some incentive element, there is money that is available for that. in terms of college enrollment, there are some colleges that can actually fund on the margin, that the tuition revenue some from the student and some from

the federal programs, that that actually can find that in criminal student. the limits in some way work about rigid work against that. the particularly strong institution to. . . all we would like to see is that the student enrollment of the affected institutions would go up and the student enrollment of your less effective would go down. and in order to make that dynamic work, you would have to have room for expansion in the more effected institution. hopefully i have given you a sense that there are improvements that could be made. takes a huge amount of money united states spends on education, even the 50th in the nation is spending more countries in the world, including countries that are getting better outcomes then we get. it is valuable to think where

can it be spent, how can it have an impact. two books i found very educational on these topics. i wish that there were more. one is the "wear your school dollar goes," and "stretching the school dollars." the second has a couple of studies were there were good reallocations. many found themselves without a job subsequently. it is not an easy political -- politically to do some of these things. it is important. i think you for your focus on education. it is good for the country. and our foundation can do stuff to help out on these things. it is tough to flip that curb, to have the ball formants go up even in a period when the amount of money is not going to go up

-- to have performance go up even in a period where the amount of money is not going to. thank you. >> thank you, bill. and thank you for the commitment of the foundation. how would like to start by asking a more personal question. when you look to the foundation like you and melinda had come of what brought you to decide that you would invest so much in education, and that would be your priority? >> we've ended up having two priorities. one was to look at the world as a whole and what was the greatest inequity. there will lead to the -- there will lead to the children's health care problem and found that there was the magical

solution, that you could save lives literally for a few thousand dollars. it had a good impact on improving health and lowering population growth. but even though we had a global issue, we wanted to pick something that was important for the united states. the issue that we thought would make the most difference for the country, because after all, we grew up here, the fortune now we are spending because of incredible system in the united states, and that is where we picked education. we did not have to pick between the overall success of the country or an equities between the country. education is more center project is so central to both of those things.

-- education is so central to both of those things. if you care about any type of betty -- in equity, if you care about race education just jumps out so much ahead of anything else. it is scary to look to the fact the same unit is -- the things we have done well in education, where other countries mimic those things, and some of the things we do not do that well, like paying based on seniority, they did not choose those things. in some ways those are good. it is not a zero sum game. but it was not the thing we wanted to get involved with. at the time were quite naive about how complicated it was, even understanding where the funding came from and how the decisions are made at all the

different levels and things like that. but we have gotten excited about it. there are times where it seems quite daunting. all you have to do is go back and visit some of these great schools come and meet with the kids, meet with the teachers and remind yourselves that this really can work, and the new rededicated to the cause. when you look at the numbers, particularly with budgets, to say how much can we make in the next 5 to 10 years, and i still feel with the right focus, in some ways, at least it brings a willingness to look get what we really works and what does not, even though it is a challenging situation. in every governor here thank you for your commitment. before i open it up to questions, i have one more question for you. as you have traveled the world with microsoft and now with the foundation, i am sure that you have seen countries where we are

clearly going to be in competition with or are already, that have got it right with respect to education. at least parts of it, so that lessons learned for us as governor, could you share your thoughts on that? >> there are a few things that the united states the right that the others do not have right. the quality of our best universities is still overwhelmingly the best in the world. if you took the top 20 universities, the argument would be whether 15 or 19 of them are united states-based universities. everyone went but cambridge in, and there is one in china that belongs on the list, but the united states is way ahead on that list. it took many decades to develop that. it is the combination of our very best events doing well -- students doing well, and smart people from all over the world

that wanted to come to these universities. both the undergraduate and graduate levels. our net imports of iq into this country has been a huge advantage and there is no other country that has that. that is not quite as powerful. we make it hard for those people to come in on tuesday, but it is still in mind blowing thing. the strength of those universities, a lot of it is based on the research dollars, some at the state level, but largely on the federal level, they made those things very strong. that is a real question, that element of support, would be there for those institutions? whenever people to you about the overseas school systems that are very good, please do take it with a grain of salt. there's a temptation for them to tell them about the part that is good and not tell you the full

story. no one has a perfect education system. and there are many elements that go into it, including cultural. when people look at the finnish school system that score is very high, they do not have a long year. they have their very best students choosing to be teachers, which used to be the case in the united states. if you look the other systems that work well, they run amazing future personnel systems, they run longer school days, longer school years, and in the interest of the students in going to topics like mathematics, science, engineering, it is much more higher than in the united states. outside of asia, the number engineers the world is creating is going down, but asia, which mostly means india and china, are increasing the number of people in the manufacturing, who

understand product design, all those things. those numbers are very daunting when you look at those. you take someone like microsoft, who wants to hire engineers, that is our bread and butter thing, and it is a real challenge. strong elements from these different systems. singapore, korea, the one the was a real shot to is, they took a piece of china -- a real shock to us, they took a piece of china and it outscored everyone. the educational test where they'd take the data and analyze it, these are phenomenal reports. is extremely well done. i am amazed that they do them so well. the interview the teachers, they talk about class size, if the talk about curriculum, they get into all the different elements of why some of these systems do better than others. >> questions?

erenor. gov. >> flipping the curve, on the slide on adults per 1000 students, when i was mayor, my school enrollment was declining. he went from 20,000 students than to 80,500. costs were going on. what is going on here? and the answer was, or children a coming in with special needs, autism the new phenomenon, add, and we are spending much more per the supreme court ruling of the 1970's, the public system has to educate every child. and i visited one high school and was going down the car door and let in the classroom, and they're in this classroom work wheelchairs'. i spoke to a teacher after school, how many stitches you have?

8, with three teachers. there is our costs. has your foundational looked at how we can better deal with this mandate, a necessary mandate of educating all of our special needs students? >> the analysis would show that some are close of 50% of that cost increase relates to special needs. -- 15% of the cost increase relates to specialists. it is a part, but it is not substantial. there is a lot from state to state. the question of some states doing a good job getting specialists and putting a lot of these kids into a single location, is that a good model? and does transportation cost and convenience workout to do it that way? are their best practices -- i am not an expert on that.

but that adult to student ratio to change, special-education would be one that would jump at a cheap. >> gov. herbert and then governor perdue. >> we appreciate you coming in spending some time with us. as the governor of utah, no. 50 in per pupil spending in our nation, something that we're not necessarily proud, as opposed to gov. chaffee losing student, we are growing a. we have the highest birth rate in america. we have 20% larger family size and we have a lot of public land in our state which limits our ability to develop commercially. we have tried to think outside the box in some ways, we have

even tried about your program which became world war iii between our legislature and others supporting the voucher program. and those who claim to represent education. you talk about best practices. and certainly there are a lot of those out there in the private sector, charter schools, etc., being advocated. but we are having a hard time to get everyone to agree on what is best practices are. some of the technology, by learning processes, but for you do that, you will reduce our classroom sizes, they are saying. give me suggestions on how we can get people to come together they have different points of view and very opinionated. said to you, to find out how best practices that we should embrace. >> over the years what has gone on in the education sector has

been more recesses -- more resources put into the sector. now that we are at this sea change where it is unlikely and all but very few states that there will be substantial increases, the dialogue has to change. there would be a dialogue about minimizing what cuts are made there, but the dialogue is going to have to be effective spending. there is a virtual school in utah, where i met with the principle recently, just a phenomenal piece of work. he was talking about $5,500 per student is not as generous as many of the people get, but he had figured out how to make it work. some state spend as much as

three times as much as what utah does. we need to measure things and stretching the school dollar talks about the methodology and elective class is that are costing us money. the extra investment did not go into math and reading and the core skills. in terms of how much time students spend, that is actually down. a lot of the professional development are not high impact dollars. unfortunately that is the case. in many secretaries, the normal what excellences is pretty well understood. math and reading, no child left behind has a lot of things and people complain about, but it did point out that of lot of schools are not doing well on those core topics. there has been a little bit of a

shift back in the focus on those core topics. but the effectiveness discussion, some people will come to the table on that discussion, because that is what we have to play with at this point in time. >> governor perdue. >> thank you. mr. gates, north carolina has been a beneficiary of the bill in melinda gates foundation and i want to thank you for that. the investments you have been around teacher effectiveness. the shining star project has allowed us to do some cool innovation in how we educate various students. we have kids who are juniors in high school signing a pledge, doing one extra year, they can get a community college degree in five years. it is changing our state, and we

adopted your model for a virtual education, and we have the fastest growing virtual school in america. the quality is good. i go back to the premise that you just made. north carolina has been a leader in the common core. i hope to join on a common evaluation system so we all know where we are going rather than spending those hundreds of millions of dollars individually in states. the data in this book, i read this book and i marked the craft. -- graph. quality teachers of the bottom line to a productive worker in america. and the data at belize says that if you get a bad teacher three errors in a row, you might as well drop out. and -- in the data, i believe, says that if you get a bad teacher three years in a row,

you might as well drop out. i'm glad my kids are old and have forgotten me by now. but the bottom line, if i am a really bad teacher, and because my budget in north carolina is in bad shape and i decide, i am going to take this book cover the information we're presented today, but i save money on my budget by adding four or five more kids to a classroom, because that is the easy way to balance the budget, get rid of teachers. will happen to the kid who has a really bad teacher when you dump four or five more first graders in that class? >> nothing worse than having a bad teacher. our key priority is the a valuation system -- the evaluation system and getting it to be multifaceted enough that there is broad acceptance, that

teachers and parents see that is effective and heard that it does work and that it does not capricious or high overhead. and that it is operating like a dozen many professions. in no profession to people like to praise their evaluation system, but they know it is a necessary element that has to be there. by now because you do not have the measure, so many things do not operate when you do not have a measure. your schools of education are not motivated to do anything spectacular because they do not have a measure that would tell them that doing this is good and doing this is not good. the professional development, matt degrees, so many elements in the system that until you have the system, they're just sitting there and it is all anecdotal. likewise, the use of technology. can we let teachers see other

really good teachers? i am a big believer that you can raise that average quality quite a bit in the efficiency of doing that will be high because technology will be part of it. when my wife and i were in north carolina, about 1.5 years ago, we saw some very straight for things or the performance of assessment tests were being scanned and in the teachers would get together and talk about, well, your class did very well on that and mine did not, and the informative assessments were in line -- it was going to be aligned with what the college test work, which is the top boundary. if you have bad teachers in the system, that descends, and yet we have not put the effort into something that identifies who those people are, and pushes

them and want to directions, either to improve or to find a more appropriate occupation. >> unfortunately we are running out of time. i think we've only got enough time for two more, if we can help make them quit. gov. bashir. >> thank you for the work your condition is doing in kentucky. there are exciting things going on. you mentioned a common core standards and i was proud the kentucky were the first to adopt as. there are now 44 of us. can you give us your brief thoughts about this? what will that do for us in the long run, to have those common core standards nationwide? to in is strange that there were ever if the standards, because math and reading are not that different in different parts of the country.

we are the only country that had such a diversity of standards. it is graded this came together with states choosing to get involved with it so that they have some skin in the game. that is the real work in terms of getting the test of line to become a teacher training of line to it, taking place at the state level. right now is the math and reading in the riding, the sciences is coming along, that is a year or two behind. i think these things are quite spectacular. and people have talked about the value of the commonality, which is the common sense thing, but more more as they get exposed to the work that has been done here, they will talk about the fact that students can understand where they are, with previous standards, so many big words in them, that only an educator would read that and

even that would put it in the drawer because it was so thick in not very clear. hear that clarity, the end it -- here, the clarity, understanding the concepts, i think it is going to be quite fantastic. and it drew on looking a was was going on internationally. we will pick from the state and from that state, no, it was a rethink of what was going on. if you want to see a website that i think it is amazing, they have lectures on all math and science-type things, and going from elementary school way through. align that to the concorde, and they have ways of teaching things they rely on the common core.

if you are going to take pieces and assemble them together, they would be better, whereas before on the web, you and not know which standards it related to. there was never any learning and growing that would build up from that. common core is a great thing that leads states over that several years will start to see the benefit of it. and over the five years, we hope all 44 states have in their classrooms. >> governor hickel lipper -- higgenlooper, you have the analogy. >> we appreciate your work. you're the of an example of why capitalism works. -- the ultimate example of why capitalism margaret we of lost the irony that the world's most successful drop what is making sure its complete and get a good education. [laughter]

colorado is known for many things, and even in these hard times, what we would like to be known for as a state, the most rapidly reforming, and i share it with every governor here, the wonderful competition to have. but with our resources, i think we can accelerate the rate reform, especially in teacher effectiveness, which it can clearly see is a crux what you see as the barriers to reform and that level? >> the thing that colorado has that distinguishes it is a law, 191, that redefined tenure in a pro-student way. it is in the process of implementation. in the foundation we're trying to contribute to see that that

implementation is as strong as possible. it is a great thing. there's a place that teaches around the country can go on and see how bad the evaluation system is. they will hear, this is great, because it identified what i needed to improve in. they're really identified a few people who did not belong here and gave them a clear message in inappropriate way. this is obviously -- in an inappropriate way. appropriate way. that is one place in the country where the violation system is going really well. in three years from now, all alike have that, then to see it spread from there. whether that can be done in these budgetary times i am not sure. law is a greatdo

example of bringing all the people who should care together, to say that this is a case where you have to do something that is tough now that is beneficial for the future. there are a lot of different experiments going on, and everyone is to learn from each other. we have a district in pittsburg, pa., and another that are doing teacher effectiveness things. and in some of those cases, the union has been a very good partner in helping to design those things. it is radical. in means the compensation structure over time will look very different than it does today. that requires political will to move to that change. >> it will be done in three years. >> excellent. thank you. >> thank you.

>> the house of representatives is in tomorrow at noon eastern to consider a bill to extend spending for the fiscal year for another several weeks. the current spending bill expires this friday. live coverage of the house is here on c-span. over the next several hours, or about the libyan situation from the administration and the united nations. first, secretary of state hillary clinton. all about you in briefing on how mandatary in situations in libya. in about 40 minutes, u.s. ambassador to the u.n., susan rice, speaks with reporters at the white house. and in about an hour, british prime minister david cameron on why his government's actions on libya. on "washington journal," we will talk about federal spending with

democratic representative marcia fudge of ohio, and republican senator mark kirk of illinois. and then we will speak with an ambassador. "washington journal" is live every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern. >> you are watching c-span bringing politics and public affairs. >> you are watching c-span, bringing you politics and public affairs. every morning it is "washington journal," our live call-in program about the news of the day, connecting you with elected officials, policymakers, and journalists. weekdays, watch live coverage of the u.s. house, and on weeknights, congressional hearings and policy forums. also supreme court oral arguments. on the weekends, you can see our signature interview programs. on saturdays, "the communicators," and on sundays, "newsmakers," "q&a," and prime minister's questions from the british house of commons. you can also watch our programming any time at c-span.org, and it is all searchable at our c-span video library. c-span -- washington your way, a public service created by america's cable companies.

>> secretary of state hillary clinton says libyan leader muammar gaddafi must get down and be held accountable for violence against the libyan people. she spoke to the un human rights council in geneva for a little less than a half-hour. >> good afternoon. thank you, mr. president, and i want to thank the high commissioner and all my colleagues for their strong words here today, as well as during the special session on friday. today the world's eyes are fixed on libya. we have seen colonel gaddafi's security forces open fire on peaceful protestors again and again. they have used heavy weapons on unarmed civilians. mercenaries and thugs have been turned loose to attack

demonstrators. there are reports of soldiers executed for refusing to turn their guns on their fellow citizens, of indiscriminate killings, arbitrary arrests, and torture. colonel gaddafi and those around him must be held accountable for these acts, which violate international legal obligations and common decency. through their actions, they have lost the legitimacy to govern. and the people of libya have made themselves clear -- it is time for gaddafi to go -- now, without further violence or delay. the international community is speaking with one voice and our message is unmistakable. these violations of universal rights are unacceptable and will not be tolerated. this council took an important first step toward accountability on friday by establishing an independent

commission of inquiry. on saturday in new york, the united nations security council unanimously adopted a resolution imposing an arms embargo on libya, freezing the assets of key human rights violators and other members of the gaddafi family, and referring the libyan case to the international criminal court. tomorrow, the un general assembly should vote to accept the recommendation to suspend the gaddafi government's participation here in the human rights council. governments that turn their guns on their own people have no place in this chamber. the arab league deserves our praise as the first multilateral organization to suspend libya's membership --

despite the fact that libya was serving as the arab league chair. we hope to see our friends in the african union follow suit. we all need to work together on further steps to hold the gaddafi government accountable, provide humanitarian assistance to those in need, and support the libyan people as they pursue a transition to democracy. today, i've had the privilege of consulting with a wide range of colleagues here in geneva and president obama is meeting with un secretary general ban ki-moon in washington. we will continue coordinating closely with our allies and partners. the united states has already imposed travel restrictions and financial sanctions on gaddafi and senior libyan officials. we have frozen assets to ensure that they are preserved for the libyan people. and we have halted our very limited defense trade with libya.

we are working with the united nations, partners, allies, the international committee of the red cross and the red crescent, and other ngos to set up a robust humanitarian response to this crisis. as we move forward on these fronts, we will continue to explore all possible options for action. as we have said, nothing is off the table so long as the libyan government continues to threaten and kill libyans. ultimately, the people of libya themselves will be the ones to chart their own destiny and shape their own new government. they are now braving the dictator's bullets and putting their lives on the line to enjoy the freedoms that are the birthright of every man, woman, and child on earth. like their neighbors in tunisia and egypt, they are asserting their rights and claiming their

future. now, while the circumstances in egypt, tunisia, and libya are each unique, in every case the demand for change has come from within, with people calling for greater civil liberties, economic opportunities' and a stake in the governance of their own societies. and the world has been inspired by their courage and their determination. we see in their struggles a universal yearning for dignity and respect. and they remind us that the power of human dignity is always underestimated until the day it finally prevails. this moment belongs to the people, particularly the young people, of the middle east. on behalf of president obama and the american people, let me say that we are inspired by what you are doing and heartened by

what it means for your future. the united states supports orderly, peaceful, and irreversible transitions to real democracies that deliver results for their citizens. on this our values and interests converge. because supporting these transitions is not simply a matter of ideals. it is also a strategic imperative. without meaningful steps toward representative, accountable, and transparent governance and open economies, the gap between people and their leaders will only grow, and instability will deepen. what might have been possible in the 20th century, with new technologies and the power that people now have to connect, is no longer possible. and to hang on to systems that

are unaccountable and that do not respond to the legitimate needs of one's people poses a danger, not only a danger to leaders but a danger to all of our interests. by contrast, history has shown that democracies tend to be more stable, more peaceful, and ultimately more prosperous. democratic change must grow from within. it cannot be implanted from the outside. and let me be among the first of many to say the west certainly does not have all of the answers. the first steps of change have come quickly and dramatically. it is, however, proving tragically difficult in libya. in other nations, change is likely to be more deliberate and methodical. in all cases, the united states will support citizens and governments as they work for progress.

we are well aware of the challenges that come with these kinds of transitions. you cannot create jobs or economic opportunities overnight. these changes can be chaotic. and in the short term, there will be new voices and political competitions emerging for the first time. and as history has shown, these new births of democracy, of freedom, of human rights, can be derailed by autocrats who use violence, deception, and rigged elections to stay in power or to advance an undemocratic agenda. but like colonel gaddafi, leaders who deny their people freedom and opportunity will, in the end, fuel the very instability they fear. so the process of transition must be protected from anti- democratic influences from wherever they come. political participation must be

open to all people across the spectrum who reject violence, uphold equality, and agree to play by the rules of democracy. those who refuse should not be allowed to subvert the aspirations of the people. and leaders cannot claim democratic legitimacy if they abandon these principles once they are in power. free and fair elections are essential to building and maintaining democracy, but elections alone are not sufficient. sustainable democracies are built on strong institutions, including an independent judiciary that promotes the rule of law and helps ensure official accountability and transparency, and stands against corruption. recent days have underscored the importance of the freedom of expression, whether it's in the public square, through the press, or on the internet.

brave journalists have broadcast images of repression around the world, and the young people of tunisia and egypt have shown everyone what a force for democracy, the open exchange of ideas, can be. a vibrant civil society is also an indispensable building block of democracy. and not only in the middle east but around the world, citizen activists and civic organizations are emerging as strong voices for progress. they help develop solutions to tough problems. they hold governments accountable. they empower and protect women and minorities. the united states is committed to broadening our own engagement with civil society, and we urge leader and governments to treat civil society, as partners, not adversaries. there also must be for transitions to thrive a commitment to make economic opportunity available to all. human rights, democracy, and

development are inextricably linked and mutually reinforcing. we have seen how inequity and lack of economic opportunities drive people into the streets. so to earn the confidence of one's own people, governments have to deliver on the promise of improved lives. there is no doubt that the most important goal for most people in the world today is a decent life for themselves and their families. at the very least, that must be the goal that we deliver on. it is also particularly important that women and minorities have access to opportunity and participation. nations cannot flourish if half their population is consigned to the margins or denied their rights. we have seen how women play a vital role in driving social and economic progress when they are accorded their rights and afforded equal opportunity. and in so doing, they lift up

not only themselves but their families and their societies. these are not western principles or american ideals. they are truly universal, lessons learned by people all over the world who have made the difficult transition to sustainable democracy. and as we look at what's happening now in the middle east, of course those changes will be shaped by local circumstances and led by local leaders. and people themselves will determine whether or not the change has worked. but universal principles will be important touchstones along the way. that is why, as we watch what is happening in egypt, we hope that there will be a broad array of opposition voices and representatives to ensure that the reform process is inclusive. we want to see concrete steps taken, including enacting constitutional reforms and releasing political detainees

and lifting the state of emergency. the united states stands ready to assist, however appropriate, especially through economic assistance that helps promote reform and create greater opportunity. in tunisia, we welcome the interim leadership's efforts to form an inclusive, broad-based government and its desire to hold elections as soon as possible. and we were heartened to hear this morning from tunisia's state secretary for foreign affairs that it will welcome the opening of a un human rights office, and open its doors to all un special rapporteurs. we are supporting the tunisian people on this long and difficult road ahead. and as other important partners such as jordan and bahrain take steps -- sometimes very difficult steps -- to open their political space, we will stand behind them and support their efforts because we are convinced that they will help advance all of our shared interests.

but now, there is an alternative vision for the future of the region that only promises more frustration and discord. extremists and rejectionists across the middle east argue that they are the ones who champion the rights of the downtrodden. for decades, they have claimed that the only way to achieve change is through violence and conflict. but all they have accomplished is to undermine peace and progress. the success of peaceful protests has discredited the extremists and exposed their bankrupt arguments. iran, for example, has consistently pursued policies of violence abroad and tyranny at home. in tehran, security forces have beaten, detained, and in several recent cases killed peaceful protesters even as iran's president has made a show of denouncing the violence in libya. iranian authorities have

targeted human rights defenders and political activists, ex- government officials and their families, clerics and their children, student leaders and their professors, as well as journalists and bloggers. last week, the united states imposed new sanctions on iranian officials for serious human rights abuses. here at the human rights council, we are proud to be working with sweden and other partners to establish a special rapporteur on iran. its mandate would be to investigate and report on abuses in iran, and to speak out when the government there does not meet its human rights obligations. iranian human rights advocates have demanded this step to raise international pressure on their government. this will be a seminal moment for this council, and a test of our ability to work together to advance the goals that it represents.

indeed, every member of this council should ask him or herself a simple question -- why do people have the right to live free from fear in tripoli but not tehran? the denial of human dignity in iran is an outrage that deserves the condemnation of all who speak out for freedom and justice. the human rights council was founded because the international community has a responsibility to protect universal rights and to hold violators accountable, both in fast-breaking emergencies such as libya and cote d'ivoire, and in slow motion tragedies of chronic abuse, such as burma and north korea. we saw this council at its best on friday, when it took decisive action on libya. we saw it in december's special session on cote d'ivoire, where

the situation is increasingly dire and there's been a large spike in violence. we must continue sending a strong message to laurent gbagbo that his actions are unacceptable, and the international community must keep up the pressure. last fall, this council also took the important decision to create a special rapporteur for freedom of assembly and association, and we have likewise seen a strengthening in the council's approach to freedom of expression. but too often, still, we are not seeing a serious enough response, to use this institution to advance human rights. sometimes, the council does not act, and its integrity is undermined because it defers to regional relations, diplomatic niceties, and cynical politics. membership on this council should be earned through respect for human rights. that is the standard laid out

by the general assembly. this council's predecessor, the human rights commission, lost its credibility in part because libya was allowed to serve as its president. it should not take bloodshed for us to agree that such regimes have no place here. and i must add, the structural bias against israel -- including a standing agenda item for israel, whereas all other countries are treated under a common item -- is wrong. and it undermines the important work we are trying to do together. as member states, we can take this council in a better, stronger direction. in 2009, the united states joined the human rights council because president obama and i believed we could make a difference by working with you on the inside rather than standing on the outside merely as a critic. and over the past 18 months, we have worked together.

we've reached across regional lines in an attempt to overcome what hobbles this country more than anything else, our divisions as member states. the unity of purpose we have forged with respect to libya offers us an opportunity to continue that progress. as we look ahead, and as the council completes a review of its own operations, we hope to help set a new agenda, based on three principles. first, the council must have the capacity to respond to emergencies in real time. and it must demonstrate clearly that it possesses the will to address gross abuses, hold violators accountable, and work with governments, citizens, and civil society organizations genuinely committed to reform. second, the council must apply a single standard to all countries based on the

universal declaration of human rights. it cannot continue to single and devote disproportionate attention to any one country. and third, the council needs to abandon tired rhetorical debates and focus instead on making tangible improvements in people's lives. for example, in this session we have an opportunity to move beyond a decade-long debate over whether insults to religion should be banned or criminalized. it is time to overcome the false divide that pits religious sensitivities against freedom of expression and pursue a new approach based on concrete steps to fight intolerance wherever it occurs. together, we can and must help this council live up to its mission and ensure that it plays a constructive role in the

days and months ahead. we will face new problems and new challenges, but if we have a firm foundation rooted in the universal declaration of human rights, we will chart a steady course. make no mistake, this popular wave for reform is spreading, not receding. each country is unique, but many of the concerns that drove people into the streets and squares of the middle east are shared by citizens in other parts of the world. too many governments are hobbled by corruption and fearful of change. too many young people cannot find jobs or opportunities. their prospects are shaped more by who they know than by what they know or what they can dream. but it is not my mother's or even my world any more.

what has happened with new technologies of the 21st century means that young people know everything that is going on everywhere, and they no longer will tolerate a status quo that blocks their aspirations. young people in the middle east have inspired millions around the world, and we celebrate what some are rightly calling the arab spring. this is a hopeful season for all humanity because the cause of human rights and human dignity belongs to us all. so for leaders on every continent, the choice becomes clearer day by day -- embrace your people's aspirations, have confidence in their potential, help them seize it, or they will lose confidence in you. those of you who were here on friday, and many of us watching on our television screens saw the libyan representative renounce gaddafi's violent rule. he said, "young people in my

country today are with their blood writing a new chapter in the history of struggle and resistance. we in the libyan mission have categorically decided to serve as representatives of the libyan people and their free will." this is the call we should heed. this is a time for action. now is the opportunity for us to support all who are willing to stand up on behalf of the rights we claim to cherish. so let us do that and let us do it with the sounds of the young people from the streets of tripoli to the markets of tunis and the squares of cairo echoing in our ears. thank you very much. [applause] >> the united nations says hundreds, maybe thousands of

civilians may have been killed and wounded in libya, while thousands more have made their way to egypt and tunisia. this briefing is a little less than 15 minutes. >> thank you very much. agaric in region from the un and its partners about the situation on the ground is scarce due to ongoing security concerns in the country. however, preliminary information comes from eastern libya suggesting that normalcy is returning. the humanitarian arm of the united nations is taking all measures to ensure that we are prepared for any eventuality. i am very concerned by the alarming reports of continued violence in the country. there are reports that civilians including women and children have been wounded and gravely injured. while there are no confirmed numbers, estimates range from hundreds to thousands.

we appeal to all parties to refrain from violence against civilians. tens of thousands of people from within libya are crossing borders over land, mainly into egypt and tunisia. as of this morning, the estimated number of people who have crossed into egypt since the beginning of the crisis is now over 61,000, while the number of those crossing into tunisia number up to 40,000. the majority of people entering tunisia art tunisian migrant workers. the government has asked for help to respond to the needs of non-tunisian national. those concerns, given the numbers about the provision of water and sanitation to these populations. welcome the positive indications the united nations has received from tunisia and egypt that they will maintain open borders for people fleeing violence in libya.

there is no clear information on internal population movements inside libya, but there are concerns that libya's -- libyans deeper inside the country and in the capital are being prevented from fleeing. an interagency assessment of the egyptian-libyan border was completed on sunday. the border crossing is said to be well organized and humanitarian assistance provided by aid organizations. in addition to participating in the interagency efforts, my organization is rapidly deploying a team to cairo to reinforce and put in place immediately mechanisms for coordination, information management, reporting, and public information.

effort so far have been focused mostly on the border areas between egypt, libya, and tunisia. we are focusing relief efforts on neighboring countries. governments have shown incredible generosity and ordinary people, particularly in tunisia have been hosting people in their homes. we are working with the tunisian government to establish a camp, flying into and thousand tents and other basic materials that arrive over the weekend. according to the world health organization, the health situation is precarious. so far, tourniquets and surgical kits have been sent to libya as well as medical supplies. whp is dispatching staff to the

borders and will do contingency planning for delivering food assistance to people affected by the violence inside libya if there is a need and once the security situation allows. first accounts from people arriving in -- at the border mention shortages including food and petrol supplies. there could be a potential interruption in the supply chain it due to the unrest. rick -- we remain concerned about the situation of migrant workers from sub-saharan african countries to have been so far unable to leave. >> thank you very much. questions, please. [unintelligible] >> you have mentioned all these concerns that you have.

in your estimation, which is the most primary of concerns that you have? is it food, medical aid, is it how many people being injured over there, how you can access them? what are your primary concerns at this point in time that you are not able to meet. >> the primary concern is getting access, particularly to tripoli and the neighboring areas rather current situation is extremely volatile. all the reports are that through the east, supplies have managed to get the end, as the situation there has returned to almost normal, from the reports that we are getting. we want to get proper assessment. we are seeing terrible photographs on our television screens as people are fleeing, but we need to have a proper sense of what the needs are.

other concerns are that countries do not close their borders. these are people in desperate need, and it applies not only to tunisia and egypt and the countries that border libya, it also applies to european union countries. access is a concern. with respect to medical supplies, the information we are getting is that there are some shortages. we worry about the possibility of longer-term shortages with respect to food, but that is not necessarily the most critical issue at this point in time. >> thank you for your explanation. i have two simple questions.

what is urgent plea needed for libyan people in the current situation, and the second question, as you know the security situation is very, very severe, very bad. helping your organization supply needed material to the people? >> i am not sure i understood the first question? >> let me clarify. what is urgently most necessary for people in this situation in libya? what is needed urgently? >> the thing that people in libya, almost one is a degree of -- most what is the degree of security. they aren't fleeing an extremely volatile, insecure situation. -- they are fleeing. you have different parts of the country being controlled by different elements. we are seeing reports of over

1000 people who are said to have died as a result of security problems in tripoli, but at the moment, we do not have any un staff in tripoli. the have been taken out of the country because of security concerns. we have seen people going to ben gazi, so that is that we have a better sense of what is happening in the east. on the west, people crossing the border into tunisia, we are hearing from them concerns about the violence, concerns about supplies running out, particularly fuel. in terms of the security situation and what kind of materials can we get into the country, medical supplies have

gone in through the east. organizations like islamic relief and other un organizations are operating in the border areas, including unicef and others. they have been extremely active on the tunisian border. we need to understand more about what is happening in country, and this is one of the things we are trying to resolve also. >> we are running out of time. could you both please ask your questions and then at ms. amash can answer. >> it sounds like you are saying by a land. france is going to fly in a to

the airport. is that possible at this point? what do you think about the no- fly zone, whether it would be helpful to get it to ensure that aid can come in and to protect the people that are fleeing? >> you are talking about european nations keeping their borders open. do you have read on how many people are trying to make the crossing now? figures in have relation to people who are fleeing into europe. the sense that we have is that there is a mix of people, some of whom are economic migrants who are trying to reach the countries as a result of the ongoing volatility in the region as a whole, and libya is now added on to that, but the main problem has been people fleeing

into tunisia and into egypt, with rising numbers going into niger. we don't know how many people from sub-saharan africa are still in libya. you will recall that there was an issue about detention centers and people from sub- saharan africa who were in those detention centers that have been released, but we have no idea where they have gone. in terms of aid being flown in are going and over land, obviously if we are able to get items in revoke routes, that is important. unhcr, the tents and nonfood items that came in over the weekend came in by cargo plane.

if member states are using air to get resources into the border areas or into libya itself, i don't see that as a problem. in terms of the issue of a no- fly zone, this is something that is being discussed and debated at the political level, at i am not prepared to comment on that. my apologies for having to run. >> i am sure we will repeat it at some point. thank you. >> more now on libya from the u.s. ambassador to the united nations, susan rice. she spoke to reporters for about 20 minutes at the white house before the daily briefing.

>> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. as i mentioned this morning, we have with us today the united states ambassador to the united nations, susan rice. she was just in a meeting with the president and the un secretary general. i would like her to speak about that meeting and she will take some questions from you. i will step aside. >> thank you very much. good afternoon, everyone. i want to start by giving a brief read out of the president's meeting with u.n. -kiretary general bankin andn moon. the un has played a positive and important role in efforts to end the bloodshed there and hold the gaddafi regime accountable and support the libyan people. in libya, the united nations is

demonstrating the indispensable role that can play in advancing our interest in defending our values. they expressed their concern about the escalation of violence at the ivory coast and the need to enable the president to resume responsibility for governing. they also discussed the historic referendum that recently took place in southern sudan, where the people overwhelmingly voted for independence. they discussed the vital work at the un and the international community have still to do, along with the parties to the sudanese conflict to resolve outstanding issues and ensure a lasting peace as the south

gained its independence in july of this year. the president and secretary- general also discussed their shared agenda to build on the strength of the united nations as well as pursuing and implementing very important management reforms, as well as budgetary discipline. finally, president obama reaffirmed the administration's strong belief that the united nations continues to play a vital role in addressing global and transnational threats, and in doing so, is work enhances the safety and well-being of the american people. coming back to libya, as you know on saturday night in new york, the security council unanimously adopted resolution 1970, a tough and binding set of sanctions and at stopping the libyan regime from killing its own people. as you know from the very beginning of the crisis in libya, we have been clear that

it is vitally important to the international community to speak with one voice. it has done so with an unusual an important sense of urgency, determination, and unity of purpose. this resolution that we passed has several important components. first, it refers the situation in libya directly to the international criminal court. this is the first time the security council has unanimously voted to refer a case of heinous human rights violations to the icc. secondly, it includes a travel ban and active freeze on cheap libyan leaders. imposes a complete arms embargo on libya and mechanisms to enforce it. finally, it takes new steps against the use of mercenaries by the libyan government to attack its own people, and it facilitates the delivery of vital humanitarian assistance. the sanctions and accountability mechanisms should make all

members of the libyan regime think about the choice they have before them. violate human rights and be held accountable, or stop the violence and respect the libyan people's call for change. there is no escaping that critical choice. in all, all the members of the united nations security council are united in their determination to make the sanctions work and work as quickly as possible. the security council has not finished its business. it will continue to monitor the situation in libya quite closely. i will reiterate what the president said over the weekend. now is the time for colonel gaddafi to step aside to prevent further bloodshed, and to allow the libyan people to have a government that is responsive to their aspirations. i am happy to take a few of your questions.

>> can you update us on the status [unintelligible] of the >> as secretary glynn said today in geneva, the talks are underway with our partners in nato and elsewhere. it is an option we are considering actively and seriously. >> are you prepared to offer material support to the antigovernment rebels in libya? >> in communication with all sorts of elements of libyan society, civil society, leaders of all sorts, to understand their perspectives and be able to be as supportive as we can of the libyan people's aspirations for freedom and justice. it is unclear at this point who will emerge as the critical

opposition elements. we are waiting to see how the opposition will coalesce. in that context is premature to begin to talk about it, military assistance. >> in an interview with several reporters, muammar gaddafi said he is not going anywhere, all my people love me, and expressed surprise that the united nations would impose sanctions and implement a travel ban based on media reports. i was wondering if you have a response to any of the things he said. >> it sounds just frankly delusional. when he can laugh in talking to american and international journalists while he is slaughtering his own people, it only underscores how insidious to leave it and how disconnected he is from reality.

it makes all the more important the urgent steps we have taken over the course of the last week on a national basis, as well as the steps we have taken collectively through the united nations and the security council. we will continue to keep the pressure on. you have seen reports about the massive quantity of resources that the treasury department has seized since the asset freeze went into effect on friday. this in light of the fact that colonel gaddafi and his sons say they have no resources out there to be seized. they have led a clean and uncorrupted like. >> can you -- when you talk about him slaughtering his own people, he appeared to be doing that a week or so or even longer, and yet the president stopped short of calling for regime change until this weekend. why did it take so long for you to call for regina change?

the president was saying it was up two libyan people. -- to call for regina it change -- regime change? >> first of all, is up to the libyan people. we will continue to be supportive of their efforts to achieve the universal rights and freedoms and the opportunity that they are seeking. we have been very, very clear about what is right and what is moral in this situation and what has been unacceptable and inexcusable violence. we have taken very strong and swift action to confront that. on friday, we froze the assets of libyas leaders and on monday, $30 million, an unprecedented quantity of resources have been seized. on saturday, the security council with u.s. and the leadership of others moved at a

speed that i can tell you from my experience is almost unheard of to passed unanimously a resolution is that not only imposed a travel ban and arms embargo, but restored the situation in libya for the first time on a unanimous basis. the situation has evolved. as the president has said, we have focused urgently on the protection of americans in ensuring that americans are safe. the same time, we have been actively working and planning to enable the swift and decisive response you have seen forthcoming from the u.s. government. >> does that make any sense now that it appears that most of the production is in hands of rebel forces? >> the united nations has historically in recent years

moved away from sweeping measures and focused precisely on target measures that go after the leadership of the country and isolate those that are responsible. we are in a different world than we were 15 or 20 years ago. we have learned some lessons from our james like iraq and elsewhere -- from regimes like iraq and elsewhere that was more scattershot. at least in the context of the security council in new york, whether we look at sanctions, we aim first and foremost at targeted measures that go after those that are responsible for violations. we have not had discussions in new york on oil. >> can you walk us through what the process would be for the united nations to recognize the opposition in libya or recognize the eastern part of that culture? is there a message in there for the iranian government's and the

governments of bahrain? how quickly the un seems to respond in this case, and maybe the lack of quickness they responded to the iranian uprising? >> the question of recognition is a very complicated one. to recognize or seek a change of government requires a vote of the un credentials committee. depending on the murkiness of the situation, that can be more or less complicated. we are dealing now with the request to the secretary general from gaddafi to withdraw accreditation for his diplomats in new york who stood up to the regime and have been very clear in calling for the kind of measures the security council

took on saturday. it is too soon to say, in all honesty, hot issues of credentials and recognition will be sorted out. unless and until there is an obvious alternative government, it is hard to give credentials -- it depends on aegean is hard to take from one and give to another because there is a not -- it is not clear to him recognition can be given. what enabled the security council to access quickly and decisively in this instance was that there was just an egregious and widely reported series of mass killings by security forces on in no sense , who is going into hospitals and shooting dead

people that had already been wounded, shooting people as they came out of mosques. all this served to galvanize a sense of outrage and determination on the part of the security council and the rest of the international community that action had to be taken. the first calls came from the arab league and the african unions, and subsequently the oic. the fact that libyas on diplomats in new york were urging decisive action also was an important factor. >> you will -- you reiterated a call for gaddafi to go. if he were to oblige and get on a plane and go, what does the u.s. want to see happen next? >> obviously the u.s. wants to see a responsible government emerged that respects the will of the libyan people. there is a serious institution

building challenge that exists in libya. we believe there are universal rights that need to be acknowledged and respected and processes determined by the people in each of these countries that charts the specific course that is suitable to that country. it would be wrong of us to sit here with the road map for political transformation in libya, but are consistent message across the region and across the world is that the people deserve the right to chart their own future in a fashion that enables them to express themselves freely, a symbol freely, select their leaders, and do so free of violence and intimidation. >> with regard to the military question, you are saying it is premature to commit troops.

is it the u.s. position that we need to be done through a nato commitment and not through a u.s. military commitment? is the president discussing more broadly how to do a proactive strategy, and how do you get ahead of that? >> the president and the secretary general disgust to the region broadly, and the international efforts including those coordinated by the united nations to be responsive to developments in each of these countries. the secretary general reported that he has sent a high-level teams to both egypt and tunisia to engage those governments about the process of transition and the political support that the united nations and the international community might be able to provide. with respect to libya, the secretary-general indicated that he intended to name a senior level person to coordinate the

united nations humanitarian and political efforts. with respect to libya, that is something we had encouraged and welcome. there is a real effort discussed and agreed that would help to coordinate and consolidate of humanitarian response with respect to libya and the political efforts to help support the democratic transformations that we hope are underway in various parts of the region. with respect to the military question, we are in discussions with partners and allies in nato and elsewhere. we have been very clear that we have a range of options that we are considering but it would be premature to say more than that. >> it seems like the u.s. does not necessarily want the u.s. stamp on any action. is that a decision draws it is

premature to speculate about any potential military action. we are simply discussing various contingencies. >> you saidething to the effect that we have not actively discussed oil at the un. are you talking specifically about the libyan issue or the request to increase oil in other countries like mask -- mexico, and canada? >> i was responding to this specific question of whether multilateral oil sanctions have been discussed actively in new york with respect to libya, and the answer to that is no. the other issues have not been discussed in a formal bid new and is not the kind of place where that discussion would occur. -- in a formal menu. -- in a formal venue.

>> the u.s. government has begun to mount a very robust humanitarian response to include resources to the various concerned agencies like the high commissioner for refugees. we will also be looking at other kinds of humanitarian aid. the secretary general explain to the president today that the un is quite concerned about metal supplies -- medical supplies in libya and urgent action being taken to ensure that those kinds of critical humanitarian aid are met and will be supportive of those efforts, as we always are. thank you very much. >> now, british prime minister david cameron on the situation in libya. his government has frozen

assets of libyan leader muammar gaddafi and is working with allies on plans for a no-fly zone there. this is a little more than an hour. is remarking on the situation in libya. >> we have been working intensively to get our people out. as of now, we have successfully removed around 600 british nationals from libya. tripoli airport, a series of six aircraft have brought out more than 380 british nationals. a similar number of foreign citizens. at ben gussie, 119 nationals and

303 foreign citizens from over 30 different countries. the first of these evacuation's took place in difficult conditions. these evacuations were assisted on the ground by five rapid deployment teams. in total, nearly 30 extra staff from the foreign office to help marsha british citizens in the scenes in and around airports and ports. clearly, the most challenging part of the evacuation is locating those british nationals scattered in the oil fields deep in the desert. i authorized the mility operation to bring as many as possible out of the desert. on saturday, two aircraft flew into the desert and picked up 74 british nationals, 1724 nationals, at three locations

on this second mission, one of the aircraft involved suffered minor damage from small arms fire. this underlines the a challenging environment in which aircraft are operating. britain has now taken a leading role in coordinating the international evacuation effort. our aircraft are involved internationally. we have established a temporary headquarters and multi to coordinate the evacuationf various countries. we should pay tribute to malta and the people that they are playing. in terms of the number of british citizens remaining in libya, this is difficult to ascertain, given the situation on the ground. not all of them will want to leave. i ask that virgin work be done in both categories, both that wish to leave and those who do t.

on current indications, as of today, there are fewer than 150 british citizens in libya, of which only a small proportion which to -- wish to leave. this situation can change and we will keep the house updated. we continue to assure that those who wished to leave can do so. our fleet will remain in the area to assist. we also have military aircraft in malta ready to fly in at short notice. the government will continue on focusing that our citizens are safe. the national security council is looking at the overall strategic picture, meeting last friday and again today, looking at their risk of citizens in countries around the region. there will be lessons learned from this evacuation, including

hiring charter aircraft, using defense assets, and the need for greater redundancy. importance was taken to extract our embassy. this was taken out on friday and saturday. our judgment throughout has been that theisk to british citizens has been growing, including the embassy, and americans, french, and germans similarly suspended the operations of their embassy. we have arranged turkey, which has several thousands of its own citizens in libya, will be looked after. i am sure the house will want to put on record all those that made the rescue effort possible, the pilots, royal navy crews, and everyone involved in all three armed services, everyone who put themselves in

harm's way. let me turn now to the pressure we are putting on qaddafi's regime. for the future of libya and its people, qaddafi's regime must end and he must leave. to that end, we are taking every step to isolate the regime, to deprive it of money, shrink its power, and insure anyone responsible for abuses of power in libya are held to account. with respect to these actions, britain is taking a lead. we secured a u. n. security resolution which we drafted and is unusually strong and includes all our proposals. it condemns qaddafi possible actions and put a travel ban on all those involved in his regime, access for international rights human monitors,ifting of restrictions on the internet and media, and ending of tension

on journalists. it refershe current leaders to the international court to face the justice they deserve. we were also the driving force behind a special session of the unouncil to reject them from the organization. with our european partner we have today secured agreement on freezing the assets of a wider group of individuals and banning them from entering the retain union, and imposing a wider arms embargo on the libyan regime. britain is also implementing these direct measures against the regime. a special counsel was held yesterday where we froze the assets of qaddafi, five of his family members, people acting on their behalf, and entities controlled or owned by them. the government has revoked colonel qaddafi's immunity as

head of state so that he nor his family may enter the u.k. we have also revoked in number of visas to those linked to the regime, and have placed many of them on a watch list. further isolation of the regime, for the use of asset freezes and travel bans to give the clearest possible message to those on the fringes of the regime that now is the time to desert it. and we do not rule out the use of military assets. we must not tolerate this regime using military force against its own people. in that context, i have asked the defense staff to work with our allies on a no-fly zone. it is clear this is an illegitimate regime that has lost the content of its people, and our message to colonel gadhafi is simple. go now. everyone hopes the situation will be resolved quickly, but

there is a real humanitarian crisis. currently, the most pressing need is to assist the migrant workers in egypt and tunisia to go home. international secretaries will be visiting the region later this week to assess the situation on the ground. in the meantime, we will be flying in supplies from dubai. north africa and the wider middle east are now at the epicenter of momentous events. history is a sweeping through the region, yet we must deal with the immediate consequences, espeally for this british citizens caught up in the situation,ut also we must look at how we and the west should respond. hopes and aspirations which have been smothered for decades are stirring. young people are seeking their rights. in the vast majority of cases, they are doing so peacefully and

bravely. the parallels of what happened in europe in 1989 are not the size, and there have been many developments in theast, and those of us who believe in democracy and open society agree, this is a precious moment of opportunity. while it is not up close to dictate from each country must run themselves, is not our belief that the -- it is our belief that freedom and human rule of law is what best expresses its people. and they are not british or western values, but the values of human beings everywhere. so we need to take this opportunity to look and our relationship with this region, the billions in the euro that we fund, our economic ties, and be clearer in linkg our assistance to promote more open and pearl societies, and we need

to suspend once and for all that democracy has no place in the arab wor. too often in the past, we ha a false choice between stability on one hand and reform and stability on the other. denying people the basic rights does not preserve stability. rather, the reverse. now is not the time to park the middle east peace process. quite the opposite. reform, not refreshen, is the way to lasting stability. no one pretes that democracies can be built overnight. it is the work of patient craftsmanship, and it takes time to put its building blocks in place. but what is happening in the middle east is a once-in-a- lifetime opportunity, a moment when history turn the page. the next page is not yet written, and it falls to us to fashion a better future for this region, to foster a better

relationship with our people. we now have the opportunity to achieve freedoms that you in britain have. i am determined i shall not let them down. i commend this statement to the house. >> mr. speaker, could i think the prime minister foris statement? i would like to ask about the four areas he covered. british security, secity in the region and the least. can i ask for deep and secret -- gratitude to members of the armed forces who have exceeded with courage and professionalism in evacuating so many british nationals and from other countries in the last week. these men and women are a credit to our nation. our first concern as the prime minister said, is the safety of our own people. for obvious operational and

security reasons, i would not expect the prime minister to discuss future operations, but can he assure the house that all past contingencies have been accounted for in libya? and given the closure of the embassy on saturday, can he assure us that everything is still being done to keep close contact with those citizens that remain, and tell us which means of communications are available to them? on the question of libya's political future, the whole house agrees with the view that the only future is one without colonel qaddafi and his regime. we welcome his comments on a no- y zone. could i also welcome the international isolation expressed in you and counsel -- un council 1730. the resolution imposes travel bans on 17th about the

loyalists and asset freezes on a number of other individuals. can he tell the house if these assets go wide enough in covering all the, including his immediate family, who have decided to stand with him? can he reassure the house that the government will make full use of the progressions -- provisions to nominate additional members targeted by travel bans and asset freezes? on the human rights situation, there is a growing humanitarian crisis on the tunisian border. i welcome the steps that he talked about. let me turn to events beyond libya and the water region. the defense unfolding across the middle east are as significant as the revolution that liberated eastern europe in 1989, and as he said, our response to the needs to be equally ambitious. there is a popular will and many of these countries for democratic reform, and this is in line with the values we

share. does he agree a way to approach the situation is to build a strategic response, including closer economic times, support her civil society and institution-building organizations? and does he succeed that while there is much we can do bilaterally, we need a multilateral effort, including the european union? can i also share the sentiments thate expressed that it would be a tragedy, if in this mode of change, the opportunity was not grasp to make progress? canada also give my report report to the prress of talks between israel and the palestinians and his support for the un security council on settlements? can he say what steps the u.k. will now be taking to get negotiations moving again? on questions of arms sales, can the prime minister confirm the government will workith eu partners to strengthen the guidelines and operations of the

rule on arms sales? finally, can i ask about the lessons to be learned about the immediate crisis for response during the last week? many members of the house on all sides have been dealing with constituents deeply anxious about their family member stranded in libya. does the prime minister accept the foreign office should have done more, as other country did, to enter plan for on the ground on tuesday, rather than late on wednesda night to evacuate our citizens? can he explain why this was not the case? given the scale of the emergency, transparent need for coordination acros government, does he not agree the emergency committee should have been convened earlier than thursday? and again, can he explain why that did not happen? and mr. speaker, can you share with the house the water lessons he learned about the running of his government? i think the whole country has thankfully seen the scale of response that can be mobilized to help our citizens, but can he

promised british nationals abroad in the future that they will not be let down, as they were in the chaos and incompetence that we saw last week? i have to say, mr. prime minister, i am surprised he did not take the opportunity to apologize to this house for the handling which we saw last week, and i hope in his reply he takes the opportunity to do so. an when the inquiry is complete, will the prime minister promised that there will be findings to the house, along with a conclusion on wasn't to be learned? >> mr. prime minister? >> thank you. first of all, thank you for the praise of our armed forces. i think they have performed a magnificent job, as they always do. thanks also to the foreign office staff for doing what is an extremely difficult job. in terms of future operations, it is difficult to say too much more than the house.

i have given these new numbers about the number of british and citizens we believe are still in the and those who want to leave, and it is still a small number, but that can change. as i explained, we have the assets to help where appropriate. in terms of the embassy, we will have a consul in at aaa, but we will be working with -- in tripoli, but we will be working with other officials. in terms of action taken against libya, whether the travel ban or asset freezes go wide enough? i think this is an important point. what we want to do is isolate and target the key members of their regime, with a warning that those close to the regime can desert or leave it, but if they stay with it, there is a chance they will be hit with travel bans and asset freezes, too. in terms of the wider region, i agree with he says about institution building and makin

sure the european union sharpen up its act in terms of neighborhood policy. there is room for multilateral action. i hope in this country, we can do more in termsf political relations and building on party to party relationships, to bld up the building blocks of democracy in that country. i agree with he says a but israel and palestine. i am proud we backed the security council. that was the right decision, but obviously, meant a disagreement with our strongest ally, the u.s., but it was the right decision to make. ar sales, the guidelines needs to be adhered to. finally, questions about lessons to be learned. there are lessons to be learned. worked with respect to egypt, scheduled and chartered flights, did not work as well in libya. lessons need to be learned about military assets. it is not as easy as some people say.

the more you rely on charters earlier, the more the schedules of the airlines' collapse. it asked a question about learning lessons of the water running of government. there are always listens to learn. if apologies are in order, he should think about the daunting dealing with libya under the last government. mr. speaker, i agree, and knew of the complete chaos in libya, there is an opportunity with our european partners to expedite the downfall of the present regime and create a post-qaddafi structure in the vacuum. we agree, given the appalling human rights, it was a complete misjudgment to turn it into a defense cooperation with libya. there are lessons are from what was done in the desert. the last governme was correct to encourage the giving us of weapons of mass destruction, the

parameter should have been given. i made the point before. parameter should have been placed on terms of the release of al-megradhi. it should not have beethe british government's position to facilitate that. >> could i echo the commendation of our forces, diplomatic and other staff, who worked so hard to provide an adequate service for british citizens and other stranded in libya? and commend the other actions the government is now taking in respect to this. cod i ask him to expand on the point he made in the statement about what he describes as greater redundancy for responding to future crises, by which i assume he means greater resilience, greater resources? would he accept that cutting the foreign office's staff by 450, to save 30 million pounds, at a time when the budget is flat, cannot but significantly

undermine the ability of the foreign office? and whether or not this contributes to the crisis? >> cuts to the foreign office are much less severe than hers. i do not think that has had a material impact. in terms of the issue of redundancy, clearly, the case of egypt, a cbination of scheduled flights and charter flights meant that we led the pack in terms of getting people out. in libya, the situation was more difficult, and we need to learn the lessons about what extra capacity to put in place. it is not as simple as people think. if you add in capacity to quickly, you ruin the schedules. lessons should be learned. we stand today and britain is doing a huge amount to help other countries out of libya, helping out over 32 other nationalities.

>> it is strange, when we have a defense review, we are told we do not need a royal navy. last week, we saw we needed one more than ever. will you assure the house that as long as you are here, there will be no furtheruts to the royal navy? >> we are an exception is well served by the navy. the point i would make is, obviously, we are making a reduction in the number of current frigates, but we have coming on stream. is a mixture of military and civilian assets that need to be brought to bear to help a country like libya. >> the prime minister has my strong support for the vote that his government cast at the un council. the last government cast a

similar vote with cross party support. does he agree with me that the lessons of the last decade is perhaps their own volition, that israelis and palestinians will not notiate a solution with themselves, and that the international community needs to force the pace on the terms and timing of that resolution? that needs to be led from the un security council. >> i agree with the gentleman. i think what i'm trying to make sure is there is a real combination of effort from britain, france, germany, the united states, to provide that backing. th problem is, it is difficult for us to want a solution more than the parties want a solution. we should be making the argument right now that the awakening of democracy in the middle east is not a threat to the peace process, but could be an opportunity. >> on that sject, president mahmoud abbas has called for elections in the palestinian

authority. do you share my concern hamas, whose mandate has expired, is refusing to allow such elections to take place in gaza? >> the key thing in terms of our engagement, should be to ask those on the palestinian side to accept the key principles of recognizing the state of israel, recognizing former agreements, then it will be possible to hold proper negotiations. but we need that to happen in order to get both tables -- part is at the table properly to haer out the problem that everyone knows is there. >> conversations with president obama. has he emphasized the opportunity in the middle east to provide progress on palestine and the middle -- israel? has he expressed support of that resolution? >> i have had ank conversion with president obama about this.

i believe it is an incredibly close relationship, but when you disagreeyou should be frank in saying so. in this situation, we do not agree. while the resolution was ideally drafted, we believe is right, and are disappointed that it was vetoed. we have to persuade the americans that further investment in the peace process is absolutely worth it, not just foits own sake, but for stability in the region. >> the government has been absolutely right to support the forces for democratic change, but does my honorable friend think that this supports will ha any effect on future relationship with our other autocratic friends in the region? >> i was actually quite stroke,

on a recent trip to the gulf region, how our old allies are actually in favor of taking further steps toward democracy, more open societies. far from the dismay from our clear rction that democracy and freedom is a good thing, and they were fully in support of it. >> mr. speaker, in kuwait, promoting arms sales and exports, does the prime minister have an opportunity to discuss with the former prime minister the fact that 20 years ago a no- fly zone was imposed without a security council resolution? isn't it time that european union nato members worked more urgently to make sure that qaddafi's regime cannot use helicopters and aircraft to crash the resistance to its regime? >> i was in kuwait recently to

commemorate the action that he led, of diverting that country from saddam hussein. those who question whether he is right to take defense companies to kuwait -- kuwait was a country where 20 years ago we risk the lives ofur personnel to free that country. iteems to me an odd argument that kuwait should not have the means of its own defense. in terms of the no-fly zone, of course, we must comply with international law, but we need to insure we do the planning and preparation now. no one is sure what qaddafi will do to his own people. he takes action, we need to put a no-fly zone in quickly. >> the prime minister is right to place the bravery of u.k. forces and staff in light. ven

these companies have had adequate evacuation plans in place or the only to learn a elation for safeguarding? correction makes an extremely good a point. this is a conversation i think we should be having now with those oil companies. they do have evacuation and transport arrangements. it is important to try to get our people lot of working with them and make sure they're playing their part in devering that. i am sure there are lessons about re what they should have done about rather than being turned over to us. >> it is a great pleasure to see here without chargesue to a foreign office minister. the international criminal court that has been invoked, can we make it quite clear that this will not only apply to gaddafi that will apply to anyone who

chooses to side with the regime? >> the german makes an extremely good point. not only will the international criminal court just not apply to people in the in khadafy regime but those in the armed forces who commit atrocities in libya or elsewhere. the reach of the international law is very long and its memory is long and quite right, too. >> the prime minister describes a very fluid series of events. this is a once in a lifetime generation to encourage it democracy to spread across the middle east. you gave a very robust message to gaddafi. do you have an equally robust message to dictators to choose not to support democracies but to send mercenaries to support gaddafi and the dictatorship? >> you make a good point which

that this is a test for everyone, for nato, the eu, the arab league, and excess for the african union. the arab league has suspended libya in terms of its membership. we should be looking to the african union to take robust action as well. certainly the point he makes about mercenaries is well made and we should be making that very clear to african army's and leaders even contemplating that sort of major. >> britain took part in an arms fair in libya last vember with all types of sniper rifles given the history of gaddafi. is it not time that this government, whichever party in office, stop set -- stop selling arms to murdering bastard who murder their own people? >> we do have in this country

now some of the tghest arms control legislation and regime anywhere in the world. would this government has done is immediately revoke about 30 licenses covering a whole range of products to that regime and others in the region. are there further lessons to be done? i'm quite clear wish to look at that to see what more could be done. >> we assure the house has learned from the last labor government to plan effectively for after the regime change. >> you make an important point which is that we need now to plan for every eventuality. we need to plan for potential humanitarian crisis and also what should happen if the regime should fall which imbeds itself for a long time and effectively we have a virtual said -- a virtual civil war in libya. we need to work with the

community to make sure we're ready for this. >> further to the point raised for east soleus, the end user certificates game is broken. but it does not work. since the first half of last year, 31 million pounds of armaments were sold to libya. many of them had smoke grenades, tear-gas, and the whole plethora of those for a stay engaged against aggression. >> when you look at the terms of the deal in the desert that was done, we need to ask serious questions about how widely it went and what equipment was involved. they're people who put in place revocation of these licenses about what was intended several years ago.

>> unanimous decision by the security council is often alert -- is often there. heads of state and heads of government will be liable to prosecution if they commit human rights offenses and offenses against humans. >> an extremely good point. when britain drafted the text of this resolution, the advice i was given was that this would take days, weeks to get through the security council. it is remarkable that the u.s. and security council has adopted this unanimously and that all countries, without naming names, backed it. it is a positive sign and it means when we come forward with esh security resolutions to tighten further the screws on this dreadful regime that there will be similar support. >> talking about planning for the future, and the discussions

with nato in terms of issues that would require putting a larger role? >> the secretary of state and defense have been discussing a range of the things today including military plaing for things like no-fly zones. those have been bilateral efforts to get into areas like the desert to rescue around people. there has bn a huge amount of coordination and i pay tribute to the brigadier to leave this process that whether it is german planes, british planes are canadian that we have each other's backs. i have had a range o discussions with different from ministers and presidents to make sure we are trying to help each other in this regard. >> a concern about the prospect of the coffee unleashing his very significant -- of gaddafi

unleashing his war machine. would he give thought to the idea that those who are resisting gaddafi must be properly armed, if necessary, in order to ensure there are not wiped out -- like what happened in sarajevo? >> another important point. we are trying at the moment to make better contacted establish contact with the opposition to learn more about what their intentions are. clearly what we wanted and what is in our best interest in the interest othe whole world than the libyan people is a swift removal of gaddafi from his decision. that is what we want to achieve and it is certainly something we should consider. >> can you confirm there is nothing new or peculiar about relations between the british government and the libyan regime? wouldou confirm that after

april 1984 that the metropolitan police, the thatcher government humiliated the commissioner of the metropolitan police are requiring him to provide policeman and an escort of the murderer to the airport so that he could get back safely to libya? >> that is a tortured way of making a political point. i would make when in return. you have to comply with international rules. under the last parliament, there was a scussion abo the release. one party said it was the right thing to do and i am proud to say that this party did not go >> speaker, omy grandfather was one of the thousands of jews

that had to leave libya because of gadhafi's persecuting jews. he came to this country because of his democracy. he would have been shocked to see notusthe close relations of the last government between gaddafi but also the fact that this thing worse universities were accepting millions of pounds for the school of economics from gaddafi. can we take steps to make sure this would never happen again? >> my friend speaks with great power. i think it was right to try and bring the country in the from the cold. the question is whether parameter should have a been put on that. -- better parameters should have been put on that. let's ho that is that the money they have can now be put to good use.

>> is a non increasingly difficult to explain the behavi of the special ambassador for trade to is not only a close friend of gaddafi but also the convicted libyan drug smuggler? >> i am not aware of the particular connection the hon. gentleman chooses to make. i am happy to look into them. to disqualify friends of gaddafi from public life, you would be saying goodbye to a lot of people. >> can i just say for future reference that references to members of the royal family shld be very rare, sparing, and respectful darks always. -- respectful? always. we will be respectful.

>> in the future, there is a much greater role to be played by contractors. we are saving lives. >> there needs to be, i think it, greater planning between companies and government. companies have played an import rule, but this is ght for the future. when your turn to bring people love the desert across turn to more platforms is extremely complicated. i am sure we can learn lessons about how to do it in the future. >> said. this would want to put on record their tremendous admiration for the courage of the libyan people who are fighting the dictator.

there were if we're looking at lessons learned -- if we are the via the lessons learned from the no-fly zone, it meant that thousands have been protected and there is not a lot we can do immediately. we should look at that as a matter of greatmportance because i thin it [inaudible] >> the hon. lady always speaks with great passion about these issues and she is right to draw attention to where people are doing in libya trying extraordinary bravery. this is a people's revolution. people want this sort of freedom to take advantage of in this country. it is not without its difficulties and problems.

you cover a vast area and it would take a serious amount of military assets. there are other ways other than helicopter gun ships and planes to carry that out. one thing we need to look at urged lyng and plan for and that is why it conversations are taking place today. >> the pre minister rightly calls at his rural and illegitimate regime which has lost the consent of its people. when did he consider it was anything but darks >> i do think his regime is illegitimate. that is another urgent piece of work to have requested to make sure that we do everything that we can to isolate to cut off the

money, supply, oxygen to this regime sit falls as fast as it possibly can. >> mr. speaker, you will recall a conversation into suspended arms sales to the region and to gear up their response. can i lcome the last parliament statement about a new approach for democracy? would you consider creating a british foundation for democracy development for trade unions in use development money only. this way we can create something to help anyone in the future rather than incriminate the past. i very much think building the

building blocks of society, this is something in which we obviously have the democracy to ask whether there is more region do or whether there is another moon -- and the mechanism. there is cross second party support for something that i think britain could take a part in helping to build. on thursday, u.s. journalists were pressing state department ficials to explain why the u.s. is not able to help the evacuation efforts. we can rely on the united states for others we wish to help. >> this is a good question about

the capability gap. clearly, i would argue that what this is demonstrating is the importance of flexibility. what is necessary is having a good range of military assets, transport aircraft as we will with the future a400-m, highly trained special forces, and more after their review. i would make the point that people put the question about carriers, but the u.s. has something like 12 aircraft carriers and not one currely in the mediterranean. there is a flexibility of forces and the ability to get people in and out quickly rather than obsessing the particular platforms. >> i think -- i think the prime minister's statement to

reconvene the human terms of. are you not, however, concerned about every country in the region about the security forces that have used weapons to have killed the young people who are demonstrating for their rights and jobs are using equipment in britain, europe, and t united states. we have to look to other relationships that are being used to carry of the carnage against holy innocent civilians trying to demand what we want for ourselves. >> two points. we have provoked a large number of licenses including those to some of the countries you have mentioned. those countries that have met these aspirations with reform actually have a chance of progress. that is not the answer and i think that is the case we will see across the region. >> there is pressure on time. with a heavily subscribed to debate with the business

committee to follow. extreme brevity is now requir. >> in terms of cloaked relations with gaddafi's son, was he not surprised to find out they had meetings with the previous sector and also the previous prime minister had been described as a "close personal friend?" >> this just highlights the issues that i was raising earlier. the point i would make is this. it was right to restore relations with libya, but parameters of judgment need to be brought to bear as well. >> in late to exaggerating and the vote cast by the united kingdom and the security council on israeli settlements, may i ask him whether he, like

chancellor merkel, received a reproachful telephone call like netanyahu? did he, like chancellor merkel, tel netanyahu then he is the principal obstacle to negotiations and he must get on with negotiations? >> i did not on this occasion get a reproachful phone call from president netanyahu. i am sure i would have responded robustly in the way that he suggests. >> does the prime minister think the relative inability of the west to offer help to egypt owes something to the disastrous policies of the regime change by minister means implemented by president bush d prime minister belair eight years ago? >> i take some issue with my friend. i think we should stop arguing but some of these points and actually tri to build a stronger argument about what our engagement with this region

should be like. this is a rather naive neocon of the that you can impose democracy at the end of a barrel of a gun. it is not right but it has also raised a realistic approach of saying we have to deal with what is there. we should learn for our history and recognize that having elections and the rule of law and the independent judiciary, free association, free speech, many of the rights that we had years before having the vote is much -- we should be focusing on in these relationships so we can "-- for them to a better future. >> will the prime minister commission an inquiry [unintelligible] >> i think the hon. gentleman is

being slightly unfair. this is not an easy tng to get right. i think we did well in the case of egypt. clearly there are lessons to learn. i think there are a number of steps, as i have said, about defense assets, redundancy, the use of scheduled flights kamenetz think we can learn those lessons relatively quickly. i think it is a straightforward and easy thing to do. >> mr. speaker, this is no surprise to anyone. does the prime minister understand that the majority of people in britain share his anchor that the last government with the scottish government did all they could to secure th release of the lockerbie bomb lockerbie-- the bomber? >> the british government should have taken a clear view. that was the largest mass murder

in british history and they should die behind bars. it would have been a clear view, the right view. >> understanding the brief efforts of our military, lessons have to be learned for the fure. james was released last night and i expect the charge to contact the office. u.s. the same questions over and over again. his family had asked repeatedly in this by the fact they have been told. lessons have to be learned. we need to ensure the victims of libya will be a [inaudible] >> the former officer minister is listening and he ll be able to take up the individual case.

they have actually seen the very hard work and they're doing. they're covering not only with the crisis in libya but also within iraq -- earthquake in new zealand as well. i'd say been impressed by the work they do. if ty have a constituency case from the foreign office will take it up to see whalessons can be learned. >> is therime minister mentioned earlier, colonel is the former chair of the african union. would you share the hope that the african union will exclude such dictators from their membership? >> we a on the case of this issue, my hon. friend. the secretary of state for international delopment will be talking to a number of african leaders about what we believe that african union could do to really step up to the plate and make the case for the unacceptable behavior of colonel gaddafi. >> whether he said the hopes and

aspirations which had been plundered for decades are stirring and if we are to build in a relationship with the middle east based onutual respect, is it not the case that we need to get rid of our reputation for double standards? then not only man standing up to dictators, but also it means that the occupation of one country by another is wrong and has to end? >> i would have some agreement withhe hon. gentleman. we should be clear inhe case of israel and palestine that the settlements are wrong. the vote we cast in the u.n. security council is absolutely clear about that. we should also be clear that we want to seem close and, democracy, and freedom in countries across-the-board african in the middle east. when i found talking to leaders in kuwait, qatar, yemen, and elsewhere that it is not a message that friends in the gulf rejected.

we, as an old friend, should be pushing and explaining. we should do so with respect and recognizing that different countries have different rates of development and different traditions. our belief in democracy should be open for negotiation. >> in light of gaddafi's 40 years of violence abroad and tierney at home, do you agree that it was morally and ethically wrong for the previous governmt to send over defense contracts? would you be able to those in the public domain so that they could be ful scrutinized? >> may look at the so called the deal in the desert, there was a degree of ambiguity and i am very happy to look at whether the actual document can be put in the public domain so we can to the mistakes have been made. >> the dilemma in libya have led to the least likely option which

would then it will be brought to ocr again. he's already has in forcing his decision and you have a hed that the real worry allows that it will not just being a humanitarian disaster but a human rights disaste. the prime minister has indicated looking a doubling efforts to ensure that we do not stand by to see that happen >> khaddafi uses force against his own people, we cannot stand by. wish to be looking at a no-fly zone and why we need america to be fully engaged looking at what needs to be done. if someone had predicted that half of libya would be under control of rebel groups a few years ago, people would have said that is impossible with the security operations that gaddafi has said his >> -- disposal.

it is a murderous dictator with control of this country and it has been knocd over some quickly. >> i think the prime minister for this. i also marked my personal thanks to the mps in were controlling the go for that time. the prime minister is aware to the real threat in this country from the constant ongoing and stability in the middle east. will the government return its intentions to the instability? >> i think she's trying to get me to prejudge what might be in the budget which i can do but it makes good points about how we hope to rescue people from the

budget. that may say ain how brave those pilots, crews, and aircraft were in an extremely difficult mission which invved a number of stops and very uncertain about what they will find. cracks can the prime minister please tell e house what reports he has received about the killing of people in tripoli who were celebrating after listening to inaccurate reports that gaddafi had fled to venezuela? >> i have not seen specific reports, but a number of people have been murdered and they both tripoli and the rest of the country by the murderous regime and the responsibility for that lies squarely with gaddafi in the people who run their regime and not with anyone else. >> on the broader point about the changes we're seeing in the middle east, with the prime minister agree that it is in britain's interest that we pursue a soft policy along the

lines of what your saying to promote democracy where people are moving towards the desire to further democracy in these countries? >> i very much agree. in terms of the soft power, we do have incredible assets whether they're the british council, the bbc, political relations, all of thosthings could be brought to bear. building democracy is painstaking work. it is those assets that can sometimes achieve the greatest success. >> can the prime minister explain the you procedure in the cobra emergency response committee? there has been criticism. was it because the deputy prime minister was not on board? will the publish that review? >> cobra is triggered by the prime minister. that is the typical way of doing so. let me just be clear.

on monday, the foreign office crisis center was established which had people embedded in it. the idea that two state dertment for not cooperating is, i think wrong cobra is an exercise by the prime minister and meets at the offial level in terms of the range of different activities that we have to deal with the. it has been in activity over the weekend. >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. can the prime minister's day -- nister say whether special charge of special forces were trained in libya or if theyave been trained against people? >> the full terms of the deal in the desert need to be made clear. the people opposite would perhaps like to issue the word "soy" for themselves. >> does the prime minister not

accept that those in the government need to bvery careful before they make statements about leaders fleeing their country as we have seen murdern the streets of tripoli as a result of the foreign secretary's foolish remarks? >> the murder on the streets in the tripoli is the responsible of the gaddafi and his murderous regime. trying to make a point of that is truly pathetic. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i welcome the prime minister's statement on the leadership that the u.k. forces are showing of the coordinating in the ground -- on the land in and give to. can you say what steps are being taken about contingency plans to protect british nationals in growth -- both iman and yemen? -- oman and yemen?

>>e're looking at the number of british nationals in the region and preventing for eventual release. we do not want to do anything to encourage those issues, but contingency plans are going on to make sure we have this issue's cover the -- covered. >> we wanted stringently controlled defense sector in the u.k., but does nothing not -- es he not think that we could have reconsidered the timing of the trade mission last week? >> i do not agree with that. i like to make people happy, but i do not agree. it was not an arranged trip. it was worthwhile going to cairo and be one of the first people to make it to tahrir square. going to kuwait on the 20th anniversary of their liberation about the importance of spreading democracy andreedom, i think that is extremely important.

in terms of to accompany me, in november 2008, the former prime minister to many of the same company including british aespace which played a big role in his own constituency. rolls royce and british aerospace are large employers. we need to make sure that they go on and employ people. >> i would like to congratulate e prime minister and the chancellor and the quick actions they took on stopping the money. can the prime minister explain about the action about the u.n. resolution? >> the most important thing is trying to encourage and good in place terms as quickly as possible.

i think is encouraging others to take that step before widening the net and putting even more pressure on the regime. >> thank you, mr. speaker. perhaps the prime minister should recall that under the last tory administration, we never paid for it. looking an interview, would you look at the export credit part played in providing cover for unstable military is? >> the trip down memory lane i was taking with john major was to celebrate the fact that this country played a part in bringing about kuwt's liberation. should we continue to have a strong relationship with that country and is taking steps to

greater openness. should we have a close relationship with them? i say yes, we should. >> i thought it was immensely impressive that we announced this summer in. in particular, i point out that 95 british nationals were rescued and 274 nationals are rescued. we were leading an evacuation. >>is son is a pilot that has served bravely in afghanistan and elsewhere. with the british military has done is outstanding both in terms of the role of the air force in terms of the desert mission. there are over 32 different nationalities have been rescued and brought back by the british

and there's a coordination going on in providing a lot of the air traffic control. this is something the whole country can be proud of. >> the deputy prime minister once said that your amazingly flaky on foreign affairs. would the prime minister talk about overcoming the libyan people? >> i think that is the definition of flaky. >> i went to egypt, and important country that we should be encouraging and made a speech to the kuwaiti parliament about democracy and the links with middle eastern countries are important. one reason may gas that country after country say they were completely ignored by the

last government. actually making sure that we're building those relationships is important and judgment here is completely wrong. >> libya is a real wake-up call. afghanistan is not the only one that matters. we have not had a balanced, moderate foreign policy. with the prime minister agree that this is a reason to accelerate the drawdown from afghanistan so that we can meet the many crisis of the world that libya and others will come from the next decade? >> i do not think this is an either or. i know my old friend has considerable experience in afghanistan, but the draown should take place. we have set an end date for it. but between now and then, it should be done with our nato and other partnerto make sure we doing on the ground so that that country can have some chance of controlling its own affairs, its content -- destiny but our aim

in afghanistan is no more than the afghans themselves to go to secure the country so does not require the presence of foreign troops. it is as simple as that. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the last few weeks have shown that not evething in the middle east is necessarily contingent upon the israel- palestinian conflict. and you >> -- that would ever policies emerge in north africa in the middle east, it is important to recognize the legitimacy of israel and that that act as a counterbalance to iraq? >> my friend makes a very good point. i do not think we should be pessimistic about the facts about grear democratization about the middle east in the arab world because of the more autocratic regimes use this as a way of keeping their own population have been. yes, the road beten here and

there may be quite bumpy and difficult, but it deals with democracy and i think, in the attic and it will be stronger. >> my constituent was stranded in the desert in an oilfield. he returned home last friday. initial contact was hard because of the circumstances on the ground, but the family's family did not make available all the information to the embassy said that coordination could be brought about. when action does the prime minister take to assure that sharing formation is efficient as possible? >> there are lessons to learn about confirmation is to be shared. it is d